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Supernatural - Castiel fresco

December 2010

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Supernatural - John

Grey's Anatomy & Supernatural

Okay, So the ep was okay. I hate Karev right now, I mean he's such an asshole, Addison shouldn't have done the surgery, but Karev DEFINITELY shouldn't have tattled.

Is it just me or did George's haircute make him look more manly? I really like man!George. He's so much better than boy!George. OMG LOL Boy George!

The Izzie/Denny interactions were great, and I love Jefferey Dean Morgan SO much. He's so just guh. His voice and man... He's like way old for me, but there's just something about him. Did anyone else see that look on his face? When he was talking to Bailey and Meredith in the beginning of the show and Izzie popped in to his room. His face was like such an 'I'm-so-in-love' face.

Also, the Burke/George friendship is so great.

McVet is so cute, but Meredith *is* acting slutty. I really dislike the whole sluttiness factor with her story, it's just very off putting.

Meh. I'd give this ep a 6 1/2 out of 10.

Next week oh man, they can't kill off Denny. He's too damn great. *whimper* We'll just have to wait and see I guess. *hopes Denny doesn't die.*

Okay, now also, I have some thoughts on John Winchester and the Supernatural finale. [Note: It turned into a big ol' meta.]

So I've been thinking about it, and I'm fairly certain John will die, here's why.

Reasons why John might die:
1.) First off, the show isn't really about John. I would be as sad as the next girl if he dies, but we know that the show can survive without him. He's a great character and I love the dynamic between the boys and him, but if John dies it would be okay, we would have lots of angst, but inevitably we can move on.

2.) Half of the Supernatural fandom is *expecting* him to die. A lot of us are expecting John to die, so it wouldn't be such of a let down if he actually does. From everything that we've seen so far, it seems like half of us are reading the signs to mean John will be dying, and if that many of us think that, how wrong can that many fangirls be?

3.) John has been kept away from the show. Now this reason I could just be pulling out of my ass, but hear me out. Now for the plot's sake John had to be kept away from the boys for the first half of the season, but why the second half? What was to stop John from joining the boys during Shadows? Why have him leave them at the end of that ep at all? If they are all stronger as a family, and they all want to find the demon, why wait to have them reunited? Excluding the fact that JDM didn't want to join the show or something, there is only one reason to put off John joining Sam and Dean.

Looking at all of our reactions from the last 2 1/2 weeks with John on the show, we pretty much all like, if not love, John. So maybe the writers were keeping him away to build up the finale when he dies. For a character to have a good death on a show, the fans need to know and like the character, but not feel like the show is completely stupid after the character is gone. We've seen the show with just Sam and Dean, we know it's a great show, so by putting off John joining the boys, they've kept us mostly unattached to his character, we'll be really sad if he dies, but not so heartbroken that we resent the show.

Realistically Kripke/the writers could have had John join the boys for Shadows. They could have kept that long arc of finding the demon, yet still have the small episodic plot detours along the way, they showed us that that was possible through Dead Man's Blood. In DMB John wasn't looking for the colt, so we know that he's not so focused on finding the demon that he can't take detours to help other people/solve other mysteries. Really the only reason to keep John from joining the show earlier (excluding JDM's feelings) is because Kripke/the writers didn't want us to get attached to his character.

4.) And more on the writers; the writers would probably find it much easier to kill off John. If Dad goes, it will be horrible and the boys will get angsty and sad, but what if he stays?

If John doesn't die how will the writers write the show? Will Dad join up and they turn into a big 'ol demon fightin' family again? No. Sam and John have too much between them, it would be pretty much the same as before Sam left, and we all know that that is a bad thing. Sam Dad = Fighting = Badness.

Also, if Dad stays on the show, there really is no reason for Sam to stay. The whole show is about Sam and Dean, not Sam, Dean, and Dad. If John lives, he and Dean could continue to hunt things while Sam goes back to college because realistically Dean only needs one hunting partner. If John is around, Sam can go and start his life again, without fear that Dean will wind up dead. However if John dies, there will still be that huge gap between the brothers and Sam will probably feel some obligation to stay with Dean and continue on; plus they would have all new angst added into the scenario.

So technically from a writing stand point, it's easier for John to go. If John dies the writers don't have to work around the awkwardness of fitting in a third character, and the boys get to hurt a bit more. (Come on, have you people learned nothing from Buffy? Main character(s) pain = the best show ever.)

5.) John is ready to die. From everything we've seen, he's completely willing to die to kill this demon. He doesn't expect to make it through the fight, and I think on some level he may *want* to die. Now, I'm not saying he really really wants *die*, but I think that he's completely willing to sacrifice himself in order to kill the demon and find peace. His whole life has been wrapped up in this fight and he wants it to be over so badly, I think he believes that if he has to die for it to be over, then so be it. John really just wants some peace and resolution.

6.) For the future, it might even be better if John *does* die. John has spent his whole life tracking down this demon, his whole life has been devoted to avenging his wife. Well what happens when that is all over? It reminds me of Frodo and the Ring(as crappy as that sounds), what is he supposed to do when his part in the tale is over? Granted John could possibly go on to do more demon fighting or even settle down and start a new life, but realistically could that happen?


If someone is so devoted to their spouse that they spend 22 years looking and searching for the thing/person that killed them, they aren't just going to stop once it's all over and settle down to start a new life. John won't automatically be able to move on with his life once the demon dies, it's not a magical solution, Mary will still be gone.

Now I'm not sure John realizes this. I think he's really just so focused on ending the fight that he hasn't stepped back to look at everything. Some part of John died that night with Mary, and I think he's being a bit selfish in his motivations if he's so focused on avenging her that he leaves the boys completely out in the cold.

So what happens when John does end this demon and he doesn't die? What happens when he steps back and looks at his life and his family? What happens when he realizes that the family he's been so intent on saving(because yes, somewhere in his mind he's still stuck on saving Mary from the ceiling and giving the boys their mother) is gone? His sons are grown and he's completely alienated them. He's turned Dean into a perfect hunter who can't *be* normal, he's pushed Sam away and made Sam resent him for it. Basically John just can't pick up where he left off when Mary died, he can't go back to normal after everything he's been through. He can't pick up the pieces of his old life.

Now John may or may not die, but these are the reason why I believe he will die. I love the character, John, I think the Winchesters are a great family and their interactions are fun to watch, but I think inevitably for the sake of the John and the story there is only one outcome for him. I'm pretty sure John will die.

*miserable sigh* Now please tell me what you think and comment and everything, I really didn't intend for this to be meta, but I guess that's just how it goes. I really would like other's thoughts on this, so please tell me what you think. :)

Thanks! :D



Everything you said makes sense. I will bawl like a baby if he does die. BUT, that gives my other favorite Jeffrey Dean Morgan character some hope. Denny might actually survive if John dies. JDM has actually said that he likes playing Denny better than John. And I like Denny's character better than John, as weird as that sounds when I actually say it. lol Denny is more likable, yes?

But oy...four more days...then we find out...and then the long and painful wait....

Thanks for your thoughts.
p.s., your icons rock. :D
Oh I can't wait to see the finale, Ugh I have to wait for the torrent too. bleh. Stinky TV station.

I love Denny. Denny is so sweet and adorable and I just want to snuggle him. I think Izzie would *die* if he died. *whimper sigh*
Thanks! There are tons more over on cherry_sin. But thanks! :D Hee!
Oh, I know. I saw. Those are the ones I meant. :D
Oh Lol, Thanks! :D
I don't want Denny too die, I want Mer/Der back together!!!
See I'm actually liking Addison/Derrick, but Meredith's stories are just bleck for me lately.
I haven't seen ep 2.24 yet, but I've read the spoilers...I'm very curious.
It's an interesting show.
that's a fact';-)
Addison shouldn't have done the surgery

I disagree, I disagree big time. The patient asked her to do the surgery. It's not for Addison or Alex to judge why, or to judge the husband, or the patient's marriage but as a doctor Addison has a responsibility to do what her patient wants. I'm not sure she should have said there was a complication, I would have said nothing and left it to the patient to explain in 4-5 years when the husband starts to wonder why she's not pregnant again.

The only fault I find is with Alex for being so judgemental. Who the hell is he that he can make judgements against anyone?
Let me rephrase, Addison shouldn't have done the surgery off the record. I think it's fine if she wants to do the surgery, I just don't think it should have been off the record and concealed as a complication.

Alex is such an ass.

I loved there at the end when Addison told him she was going to request him from now on, it was such a 'You play with fire, you're gonna get burned.' Addison is such a match for Karev. :)
Oh :(

You wrote exactly what I've been fearing for a while now...it makes sense narrative-wise for John to die, even if, as a die-hard Daddy Winchester fan, I tremble and wail at the mere thought *g*

One thing only I can say, that the writers have ways of writing John in the series but not in each episode..if the scope is to kill this demon (which I don't think they will do at the end of this season), the more teams at it the better, and John has demonstrated and said that he works better alone, while Sam and Dean are self-sufficient as a team. So, I do think John could survive and be written in a handful of episodes...I just wonder if the writers are willing to go that way or not.

That said...would you consider reposting your ideas in papawinchester? Pretty please? :D
Heh, sorry. :( I don't want John to die either, but I think it's inevitable.

Yes, if the demon lives, I do think the writers could write John into a few more eps, and actually that would be better, because it would give them a chance to re-write his character to make him more functional for after the demon dies. It will be interesting to see what they do.

Sure I can re-post. :D

Thanks! :)
thank you :D
I'll try to come up with some counter-argument that works better than me whining 'don't want him to dieeeeeeeeee'

Lol, I know how you feel, because I honestly don't want him to die either.
I think I'm in denial - I'm fervently hoping that John gets possessed and remains so in order to keep the boys together as they search for their demon/father and/or a way to exorcise the sucker from John. This way John gets to make periodic appearances in Supernatural, while romancing Izzy over on Grey's Anatomy! See, that way everyone's happy.

I seriously wish it was Thursday. The trailers for the finale are screening on tv and *every* damn time my heart is in my mouth when I watch it. *sigh*
Yeah, I would much prefer a John that is away from the boys than a dead John, but I have a feeling the writers don't want that. *sigh*

I love Denny, if Denny and John die it will just suck SO much.

It needs to be Thursday RIGHT NOW.
what you said makes sense but it would still piss me off.

I love them together but I love the boys learning and hunting on their own. I think it would be better off that John was like he has been, coming in the boys really need him. There is alot more to the story I just dont think John should be done yet. It would break my heart but ........... then it would just add to the misery of them smashing the car.
I agree, it would be better if John stays as is, but if he either has to live or die, I think he'll bite the dust. :(

Oh man the car getting smashed to hell will kill me. *hugs the Impala*
yes love for the impala, much love